Altair Inspire Render beta 2 opened to the public

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JQL
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Wed Jun 26, 2019 12:43 am

gelbuilding wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 11:04 am
Here you go.
The normal texture was wrong in two ways. I don't know who created it but it's hard to get this result in Substance…

The issue that was causing the strange reflection is that the texture has too much red on the part that should be flat, so it informs Thea render that the surface is tilting in the red axis. To fix it in Thea, just use Red Shift. I eyeballed it to -11.5% Red and now the reflection seems vertical enough.

The other issue with the texture is that it is on DirectX format so the joints in Thea will actually look outwards, not indented. To fix that reverse the green color channel in an image editor. As you have used substance it's important for thea that you export your textures in OpenGL format.

I cannot post any attachment to this post I don't know why. I have a fixed normal map for you if you want.
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gelbuilding (Thu Jun 27, 2019 8:31 am)
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gelbuilding
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Wed Jun 26, 2019 5:11 am

Thanks, JQ
Appreciate your feedback.
I always us open GL and even on the nodes of substance.
I see open GL map for the normal map or are you suggesting the base colour map?

Image
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gelbuilding
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Wed Jun 26, 2019 10:43 am

How do we place the light source in light fitting?

e.g light source into the canister of a downlight.

Image
Last edited by gelbuilding on Wed Jun 26, 2019 10:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Wed Jun 26, 2019 10:45 am

duanekemp wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 11:45 pm
This, to me seems an oversight if Altair does not import img.thea files.... some of which take 20 hours or more to produce for big scenes...
PLEASE respond as this is NOT a superficial topic that is only coming up by chance. This is a primordial issue for anyone who has been hoping to use a Studio for relight!
First of all, let me tell you that we perfectly know all the features and use cases supported by Thea 1.5

But we are trying to open up this application to other markets, other users, so don't be always so upset if something you were using so frequently is not yet in this new version.

Part of the "starting from scratch" thing is that sometimes old habits are difficult to fit in the new workflows, which may create a few problems for some users but supposedly make many more users happier (that's our intent, at least).

Now, if all you are searching for is a Thea Studio 1.5 with updated engine, well, I have to be very honest and direct here... That's not what you will find here.

We are committed to give the best support we can for existing users of course, but we chose to rebuild this because we wanted to open this up to new features that were impossible continuing with the old Studio. And that is going to disrupt (temporarily, hopefully) some workflows and habits.

Thanks,
-Claudio
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nigec
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Wed Jun 26, 2019 11:10 am

img.thea is a feature in TH4SU V2 so the SDK must be able to save and load a img.thea file
if you look at:
https://www.thearender.com/features/
Feature resume is the img.thea file :)
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Wed Jun 26, 2019 11:59 am

gelbuilding wrote:
Wed Jun 26, 2019 10:43 am
How do we place the light source in light fitting?
e.g light source into the canister of a downlight.
You can use the move tool,
MoveTool.jpg
MoveTool.jpg (2.39 KiB) Viewed 1050 times
or just double click the light (to enter edit mode) and drag the light origin point.

Note that by default there is a "Midpoint" snap active that also snaps to the center of any object bounding box.
You can also select the light and the light fitting and use the "Isolate" feature (shortcut "i" or the icon below) to remove the rest of scene and make it easier to snap.
Isolate mode.jpg
Isolate mode.jpg (6.14 KiB) Viewed 1050 times
Click that icon again or press "i" again to restore all the scene visibility.

EDIT:
You may also want to switch to Wireframe to better see inside a closed object.

Thanks,
-Claudio
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Wed Jun 26, 2019 4:39 pm

JQL wrote:
Wed Jun 26, 2019 12:43 am
gelbuilding wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 11:04 am
Here you go.
The other issue with the texture is that it is on DirectX format so the joints in Thea will actually look outwards, not indented. To fix that reverse the green color channel in an image editor. As you have used substance it's important for thea that you export your textures in OpenGL format.
Its not so simple as inverting the Green channel, if im correct. I did not see any major difference by doing that. I also think there needs to be something done to the red as well.

Indeed the neutrals look a bit off i got the neutral part at 143-128-256, where as neutral in an Normal is 128-128-256

I dont see what JQL statded that the joints are sticking out, not even sure what he mean by joints in this image. I believe the hexagon tiles are sticking up and the mortar is down. That looks just fine in my renders and als the highlights seem to catch "normal" highlights and shadows. Flipping the green only flips the highlights, its hard to say which one is correct than.

Image

I think a sphere with a rim light give a better impression of the map. This will show if which channel is correct, if the shading looks weird, than its wrong.

EDIT
Here's a test with that sphere and a rim light from top right. This shows indeed what JQL says, the original has wrong normals. See how the highlight and shadows now look completely wrong. Where the flipped green channel does look correct. The last one is just a joke, its awful ;)

Image

Its really simple inverting the green channel. Yet if that means inverting them in all your materials, thagts a huge job. Unless you make an action for it. Otherwise it will be super tedious
Last edited by Rombout on Wed Jun 26, 2019 4:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Wed Jun 26, 2019 4:45 pm

I guess you could try it in Blender/Cycles to see if it the normal map still looks funky? recreate the material..
I only have Thea at the mo

edit
I had something I could use and its definitely the normal map :)
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Wed Jun 26, 2019 5:03 pm

Claudio, i do think that Altair would need to rethink that, method of changing an app. I believe by changing or leaving out quite some features, you will lose an existing userbase and basically would mean start from complete scratch finding users. I believe quite some users wont touch this app if it doesnt have all the same AND more and better options than Studio has. Otherwise, they will NEVER jump ship. Leaving these kinds of things out feels like dummying Thea as an engine and its capabilities. Why do apps need to be made simple?! If people want 1 push apps look for something else or make a second version of the app. Make one big button "MAKE BEAUTIFUL" and done :mrgreen:

PS is that new beta out today?
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Wed Jun 26, 2019 5:42 pm

JQL wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 3:06 pm
SandroS wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 2:56 pm
why would i waste my time making suggestions for improvement when you have never listened in the past?

testing is a 2 way street - give and take.
Because these guys are listening. I have seen past beta versions and they improved a lot since then.

Altair's vision is not matching yours in terms of UI and what they want from the software. IMHO they are being more ambitious. However they are really concerned with what we say and they work hard on improving the flaws we point at the software.

Some things they won't do (I personally dislike the UI and it's going to keep being like that) but they are implementing stuff that is emanating from us.

Sorry for intervening Claudio and Sandro. I deeply respect you both.
as do i respect you Joao but to whom is Altair listening to exactly? clearly not me - just about every question in this thread has been replied to except my ones...

i'm only asking for the most important tools to be able to create images, not anything superfluous.

honestly, i'm really not fussed what the UI looks like. i got over GUIs years ago as they don't really do anything to speed up content creation.

workflow, performance and efficiency are my only priorities - the rest is nice to have (if done well of course) but not needed if it means the important things get less development time.

i'm all for aiming high and wanting to create the best product possible, but let's be honest here - it has taken 3 years to get this application released in what can only be described as alpha state. and that's despite us being told that the long wait was due to the fact that Altair wanted to release something complete and polished.

how long is it going to take to implement everything else? another 3 years? 5?

i thought my suggestion to give existing Studio users an update including the new engines was a good one. it gets cash in Altair's till and it keeps us existing users happy - another thing that has been promised multiple times but not actually delivered.

it looks like this will not be offered so i'll continue with my baby steps towards switching to Blender and will keep using 1.5 until i find the time to make a full switch.

the only alternative left for me is a potential Blender/Thea plugin, using the latest engines - shouldn't that be possible now that the new engines are available?

if anyone wants my help and input i would be happy to help with Blender integration. i can't code but am willing to help in any other way i can to make it happen.
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