Fully Pregnant
Monday, 30 August 2010 09:48

Sometime ago, I saw an advertisement of a render engine describing it as "fully unbiased". It seems that a lot of renderers are trying to make a statement these days about their quality by being unbiased (which always helps deliver accuracy without fighting with settings). But... "fully unbiased"? And is there accordingly "partially unbiased" as well? These terms simply do not exist, it's the same like saying fully and partially pregnant. Talented programmers were always fond of developing a ray tracer, but they occasionally suffer from lack of scientific background, or so it seems.

On the other hand, the unbiased approach is only a means of rendering (accurately) an image. The quality comes from other elements though; materials, textures, geometric complexity and of course user skills and artistic talent. It looks like that the unbiased term is rather abused in the context of an aggressive marketing strategy.

Even if a technique is theoretically unbiased, this does not mean that it will resolve to 100% correct results. I am going actually to insist here that there is no unbiased technique that will deliver you 100% accuracy in practice. What? you didn't know? That's right, there is no truly unbiased technique in practice. And this is due to one plain reason; finite calculation accuracy. No matter what you will use, your processor does not have enough bits to avoid adding a small bias there, negligible many times but important some other times. You may now understand why some unbiased renderers cannot resolve sun-pool caustics; yep, even if you leave them running for a year they will never converge to the right result!

So, perhaps it's time to ask the right question, which sounds like an oxymoron at first; could we say something about unbiased renderers according to their practical bias? Yeah, we could! But unfortunately, this requires some very complicated analysis on the technique and its custom implementation. Nevertheless, in most cases, the general methodology used plays the most vital role in characterizing the accuracy of the technique. And for all those praising a path tracer as "fully unbiased", the fact is that path tracing is the method with the worst practical accuracy and robustness when resolving global illumination.

 

Comments  

 
0 #13 RE: Fully PregnantTermin8 2010-09-19 09:45
Quoting Wendy Welton:
I haven't a clue what "biased" and "unbiased" really mean! What I do know is that the human eye doesn't see reality anyway. So, imho, if the results look good, it's "right" for me.

Right, but unbiased render engine allows us to get "reality" without having to make hundreds of tweaks.
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0 #12 RE: Fully Pregnantgiannis 2010-09-18 21:36
Quoting Wendy Welton:
I haven't a clue what "biased" and "unbiased" really mean! What I do know is that the human eye doesn't see reality anyway.

But eventually, reality for us is what we see right? Which of course, may differ from the reality of the person that sits next to us.

At the end of the day, a good looking render will be the one that is pleasing to our eyes; it is usually the skills and effort that make that, the tool can be a great engine or even windows paint!
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0 #11 RE: Fully PregnantWendy Welton 2010-09-18 20:17
[quote name="Wendy Welton"]I haven't a clue ...
oops - I thought "title" was my title!
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0 #10 chief cook and bottle washerWendy Welton 2010-09-18 20:15
I haven't a clue what "biased" and "unbiased" really mean! What I do know is that the human eye doesn't see reality anyway. So, imho, if the results look good, it's "right" for me. And - I'm getting great looking stuff out of Thea, limited right now primarily by my skill (or lack of). I'm looking forward to learning more as you approach full release and there are more and better videos and other training materials. Especially at the introductory beta price, it's been exactly what I needed.
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+3 #9 RE: Fully Pregnantgiannis 2010-09-04 13:46
Quoting Termin8:
I trully wish Thea Render success! And i really wish to see GPU based engine as well. Will be coming back here regularly.

Thank you, I appreciate this!
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+1 #8 RE: Fully PregnantTermin8 2010-09-04 13:39
Quoting giannis:
Please, don't get my answers offensive or sentimental, I am a very calm person ;-)

No problems. Me too. I'm glad to know that we finally understood each other :)
I trully wish Thea Render success! And i really wish to see GPU based engine as well. Will be coming back here regularly.
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+1 #7 RE: Fully Pregnantgiannis 2010-09-04 13:32
Quoting Termin8:
I asked for not being offensive on my words, because those word said with no bad purpose in mind.

It is good to know that! There are sometimes users (rarely indeed) that are very "protective" with a product and always advertising, like if they would have had an employment relationship.

Please, don't get my answers offensive or sentimental, I am a very calm person ;-)
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-3 #6 RE: Fully PregnantTermin8 2010-09-04 13:02
Quoting giannis:
You can try finding another site that allows this.

Allows what? Posting bad comments? I asked for not being offensive on my words, because those word said with no bad purpose in mind. Don't be sensitive, be objective.
Thanks for conversation anyway!

Best regards,
Alexander
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+3 #5 RE: Fully Pregnantgiannis 2010-09-04 12:48
Quoting Termin8:
Or does Thea Render accepts only good and wondering comments?

I think that we are constantly proving everybody that we allow all negative posts, even if it is here at website front face and even if they are made with a different purpose in mind. You can try finding another site that allows this.

As for advertisement, your text in the brackets was very similar to a related advertisement.
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-2 #4 RE: Fully PregnantTermin8 2010-09-04 12:10
Quoting giannis:
...which are (obviously) done with the purpose of making an advertisement...
But just to clarify something; you cannot advertise your/another product here.

You are wrong! No ads from me, just an opinion. Allowed?
Or does Thea Render accepts only good and wondering comments?
Anyway, i'm not at all against Thea Render, but there are at least 2 CPU renders i'll not switch from so far, at least because i don't see any reason. I'm sure you know them.
I've been to the forum. Look at Wishlist Poll instead. Any thoughts?
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+2 #3 RE: Fully Pregnantgiannis 2010-09-02 06:19
Quoting Termin8:
There are tons of different biased/unbiased renderers nowadays...

No, there are no "tons" of unbiased renderers, the commercial ones are actually under 5 the way we count. I won't answer your writings against Thea which are (obviously) done with the purpose of making an advertisement, but I will still leave the comment assuming it is not meant to be provocative...

But just to clarify something; you cannot advertise your/another product here.
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+1 #2 RE: Fully PregnantGon 2010-09-02 00:03
*offtopic* Hey Termin8 ! Check forums to know more about upcoming features in thea render ;), and also google for GPU rendering limitations.

By the way, path tracing is the method with the worst practical accuracy and robustness when resolving global illumination
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-6 #1 IMHOTermin8 2010-09-01 14:43
There are tons of different biased/unbiased renderers nowadays. Thea Render is not a thing people will accept as a miracle or super-power product. It's just another render engine. [...].
Does Thea plan to release GPU based render engine? Or does it plan to get lost in a sea of unnecessary CPU renders in about a half a year?

No offence, but nothing new here in Thea Render. I would be really happy to see GPU render engine by Thea. Probably i'd purchased one.

To be honest, i wish Thea all the best!
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